The two words that will turn me off most are “spoil me”.
Turn me off might be putting it lightly. Maybe angry or….ok angry is the word.
On the surface it sounds great until you realize what the words really mean. The problem is, sometimes their idea of being spoiled has nothing to do with my idea of being spoiled. The conversations usually go like this:
Her: I want you to spoil me.
Me: Great! How do you like your coffee? What kind of domestic service do you want? Do you enjoy massage? Want someone to wait on you hand and foot?
Her: I want to go shopping.
I did go shopping with someone once. When I first moved to New York I met someone from collarme who said she wanted to meet me for coffee and go shopping. We went to a few stores but she just couldn’t find what she was looking for. Finally she found a pair of shoes that were perfect for her and when it came time to pay she looked at me as though she was expecting me to do something. I had no clue how to react. I reached for my wallet but when I saw that the bill was a few hundred bucks I stopped dead in my tracks.
My converse all-stars usually run $35 bucks.
I told her I couldn’t pay for them even if i wanted to and she looked at me with this look I’ll never forget. She stormed out of the store and quickly followed her after apologizing to the person behind the counter. She was visibly upset and started ranting about how she had never been so embarrassed in her life and how she had just spent two hours with me and her time was worth more than just a cup of coffee.
I was speechless and felt as though the rug had just been pulled out from under me. She went from being interested in me as a possible play partner, to someone who couldn’t stand the sight of me.
“Don’t you think I’m a goddess?” she asked me with a hint of anger.
“Well, yes, of course, but you don’t need those shoes to be a goddess”. I was still in shock.
“I thought you were going to be different, I am very disappointed. Don’t contact me again until you’re ready to treat me to what I deserve”.
She walked off in a huff and I never heard from her again despite my emails to her apologizing for the misunderstanding.
If the same thing were to happen to me now I would have told her to go fuck some old investment banker who looked like Larry “Bud” Melman.
Sure the sex would suck but she’d at least have her shoes.
Wow. That’s plain old awful. That’s not spoiling, that’s plain spoiled.
1. She sounds fucking insane.
2. If I judged all by the asshats I’ve met in my life, I would never, ever, ever trust anyone again. Ever.
I’m with Goose.
I think some women are so far beyond words…
When I want to be spoiled, it has nothing to do with the cash in your wallet. Women who think a shopping spree is owed to them as part of spoiling have so much to learn, but I’m afraid those women never will.
So she was a whore, and dishonest about her whoring, to boot. Big deal. They’re not all like that. And of course “spoil me” is a big red flag, it’s Craigslist code for “buy me stuff.”
Of course you should avoid red flag girls like that. There are dominants here and on my blog both that will tell you that that’s not all dominant women, and not all women who are worth treating like a goddess.
And Angry’s a damn fine word for it.
Yep, what Bad Man said. All of it.
Different perspective on this: I actually love getting presents. (And being waited on, cooked for, all of it.) But I go out of my way to try to *not* impose present-buying upon other people. Doing so makes me feel uncomfortable and spoiled. For me, feeling spoiled is a very negative experience, one that I try to avoid when possible.
When I do rarely venture into the territory of demanding presents (I should say asking, since I can’t bring myself to demand that money be spent upon me), I do so with a thousand caveats and questions. I end up apologising, feeling awkward, and needing constant reassurance that I’m not being a brat. It’s a bad scene.
So I get this story, from both sides. I think you should be angry at her for being the dishonest prat that she is. Her behavior was unacceptable. But on the other hand, I can maybe see what she wanted, buried as it was beneath layers of disfunction and arrogance and stupidity. And it makes me sad for her.
If that’s what she thinks submission is about then ermm she doesn’t deserve the title of Mistress or whatever … after a coffee if thats what she expected then ermm what next? … and all expenses paid trip around the world? Some people need a reality check and maybe a few extra braincells. Good on you for saying no I would have been absolutely shocked at her behaviour x
And along those lines. . . .
At that point, the commenter realized that her html was unsupported. Rather than turn tail and slink away, she bravely tried again:
When I read personal ads, guys who want to “spoil” me or “treat me like a lady”, etc., are immediately ruled out. I just find that whole thing icky. Icky icky icky.
Ugh. I can’t believe that there are still women like that out there. I mean, I can, but… ugh.
Ughhh…that’s just beyond rude. Whether or not this woman was a pro or a “whore” and left that piece of info out is bad enough, but where do people get this sense of entitlement from??
It just makes me sad that for some, the title (and I use it loosely) “dominant woman” is automatically associated with “goddess who deserves to be worshiped”. I don’t get that. Respect is earned and worship should not be carried out blindly.
You handled that situation with class, Axe. Sorry she turned out to be such a schmuck.
Just so I’m clear, by “whore” I certainly didn’t mean the sex worker sort, I meant the epithet. I’m sure that was clear, but hey.
I think that’s a good distinction to make, Bad Man.
My god the nerve! I can just envision her as a child and teenager.
“But DADDY i WANT it. NOW.”
And like Veruca Salt she got it, but somehow has rarely ever gotten what she -deserved-. The sad thing is, there are just enough submissive men who cater to that sort of thing. There is a blog that occasionally pops up on Sugasm that makes me cringe and shake my head, to her it’s all about new ways for her to take the money of gullible men.
Spoil me? Occasionally, sure. Cook for me, let the dishes go till morning and spend the extra energy on your tongue 😉 It won’t take me long before I return the spoiling.
Bad form, indeed.
I think that what galls me the most about this sort of thing is that it adds to the “whore” designation of women who have a financial fetish. And I mean BOTH of the uses of the word “whore.”
This sort of thing happens only for one of 2 reasons.
The first reason is that this woman has seen people online using the “spoil me” line and thinks that is the default status quo for dominant women, (it isn’t) and that if she calls herself “dominant” and meets a submissive man that she’ll get that pair of manolos she’s always dreamed of having.
Or, the second reason, she’s just an idiot. If she authentically has a fetish for being spoiled, if this is how she normally “plays,” then she’s an idiot for assuming it is anyone else’s default assumption of how to play.
It’s the equivalent of being into cutting (or ball busting, or forced feminization, or anything else) and not bringing it up during initial conversations; then taking you into a room and starting to carve her initials into your chest; and being offended when you aren’t into it.
It’s just bad form.
As a woman who admits (grudgingly, and in a whisper) to having something of a financial kink/domination streak, even I’m disgusted.
But mostly, I’m outright perplexed by the attitude that she’s owed fancy shoes because she just had coffee with you. Hell, even if I had coffee with Bill Gates AND Oprah, I wouldn’t expect a pair of Jimmy Choos afterward. (Though with Oprah, you never know what might be under your chair.) It’s like she was doing online financial domination… in person. Weirdo!
I find the entire notion bizarre, and have noticed more of this type of attitude from a lot of non professional dominant women who somehow feel entitled to essentially charge for their time, while not even providing a service.
Their justification is along the lines of “If you want me to spend any time with you then you had better bring money, presents, ‘tribute’ to prove your sincerity”
It makes my skin crawl.
Really, if you don’t spend time with someone simply because it’s enjoyable, what’s the point?
I’ll be frank, I love to be spoiled. I really do. I’m lazy, and I’m self-indulgent, and I’m kinda self-absorbed, to boot.
But my idea of spoiling matches a lot closer to yours. I want him to pay attention to how I like my tea brewed, which blends in what moods I’m in. I want him to learn reflexology to give me a better massage. I want him to do the dishes after I cook (hey, I like cooking) without complaining, and maybe, occasionally, bring me breakfast in bed.
But buy me stuff? WTF?!
Sure, if I know for a fact he’s doing much better than I am, and there’s something we both want for me to have…. maybe. I am a poor college student, after all, and if you want me to use some expensive toy on you, then you’d better be prepared to be the one buying it.
But the concept of being owed several hundred dollars worth of shoes simply for having coffee boggles me.
I guess I’m not a Twue(tm) Domme.
It’s a very tricky area, and I think if it is a genuine kink a partner has they need to spell it out or it’s easy to look like you’re just taking advantage.
Is it just me or is there a bit of a gender split about this one too? Don’t dominant men often try to show they’re in control by paying for things? How many female subs prove their devotion by picking up the tab?
I’m always a bit suspicious of things where markers for something being dom or sub change with the gender of the person.
Financial DS is just like any other type of play. It needs to be negotiated and agreed upon prior to the scene (hard limit of expense, type of scene–buying panties or shoes, public or online, etc). Just as I wouldn’t take out a singletail and start whipping someone who hasn’t expressed themselves as a masochist, I wouldn’t demand shopping from anyone unless it were negotiated or frankly offered.
“Spoil me”? ug. I don’t eat spoiled goods.
Wow. Ick. I haven’t had an all-expenses paid shopping spree since the “back to school” ritual ended when I was 12. Entitlement is an icky thing. The only time I’ve used the phrase “spoil me” I meant a massage- now that I know what a red flag it is, I’ll have to avoid it!
(That said, the exception is toys. I’m pretty uncomfortable with having men buy things for me, but if you want me to hit you with anything fancier than my old belt? Gonna need to at least go half. I wish I had the money to stock my own toy bag, but alas…)
@ Fluence: “I’m always a bit suspicious of things where markers for something being dom or sub change with the gender of the person.”
Indeed. I’ve noticed it with things like holding doors open, as well. Always makes me raise an eyebrow.
Maybe she’d been reading some of those “true life” comments, blogs, yahoo group posts out there where men profess to want to treat women in that way 😉
It’s difficult to believe anyone would actually think something like that would work. You embarrassed her?? She embarrassed herself.
I usually lurk – but this is that ongoing/difficult debate about the tension surrounding financial domination.
Really, as others have said, the root of this issue is not financial domination being an exploitative kink or one where the person who is interested in it being bratty/childish — she just did not get Axe’s consent to initiate this dynamic, and her rage around being rejected, well, she should’ve expected it if that was not negotiated initially. Safe, Sane, and Consensual really is such an important saying, even if it has become trite for most of us.
However, my approach to domination is total self-sufficience, ideally so much so that I am able to provide for a submissive. I’m not entirely sure why for female domination there is an implicit expectation (in heterosexual relationships especially) that the female dominant is supposed to be paid for by the male submissive and not vice versa. While in female sub and male dominant relationships, the expectation is reversed – either the male sub typically provides for the female sub and/or has strct control over their finances/financial choices. Since I’ve mostly been involved with the queer community when it comes to BDSM, this dynamic is totally blurred and depends entirely on ther pairing, but as a female dominant that has been pro/non-pro and has played with female/male partners, I’ve found that my female subs expect/hope to be cared for/’spoiled’ financially while the male subs expect the exact opposite – and I’ve always wondered…. What accounts for this difference and am I unconsciously enforcing it somehow? Why is financial dominantion such a feminized kink, why is there sort of a tacit expectation that the male sub will overly indulge/gift/etc.
I typically have had to stop male subs from an outpouring of gifts b/c although gifting/$/etc is not something I am against, it is not a kink of mine, and [I’m speaking now as a non-pro] it especially does not mean that one financial transaction or giant gift means I want you to be my sub or hell even play with you. One particular experience I remember is a (boy) sub sent me a gift card of some excessive amount and got this overinflated sense of entitlement thereafter, when that had not even been negotiated/discussed… and I actually was not even interested.
But if that were my kink and was also someone else’s and we talked about it beforehand, then woohoo, let’s do it.
It sucks for everyone involved to act unilaterally around your own kink.
er: “either the male sub typically provides for the female sub and/or has strct control over their finances/financial choices.”
should say: “either the male DOM typically provides for the female sub and/or has strict…”
I honestly had no clue this post would get so much talk. Thanks for all of your comments as usual. I should state that, if I could have payed for her shoes, I would have. This was at a point when I was at my most desperate.
Axe, I’m glad you didn’t pay for her shoes, whether you wanted to or not. And I’m glad you finish with saying that if this were now, you’d tell her to fuck off.
Reading the post and then all the comments, I want to say that I don’t think this is D/s, it’s just taking advantage. I don’t know.. So you met her on collarme, technically she SHOULD know about domination, but, hurm, really? Ok, I’m no expert, but I thought you should get something out of it, too. Someone said it in one of the comments, it’s like she expected to get paid without providing a service. I guess she could use the excuse that this was financial domination, but if this were the case, someone else said it: there was no negotiation, no consent on your part. What a bitch. I think she just wants to get free stuff. She is no goddess, doesn’t “deserve” anyone buying her shoes or anything. Although, maybe she thought that when she said “I want to go shopping”, it was clear what she wanted? Still…
On a side note, I do enjoy being spoiled. But don’t buy me stuff… Give me a massage, make my coffee in the morning, cook for me, talk to me… And I don’t expect these things, I’m not entitled to them.
Just wow. No one should expect to be spoiled like that, especially not without prior discussion about what it means at least…..but even then, just wow. She wasn’t worth your time (or your money for that matter) anyway.
Axe, would you have paid for her shoes out of wanting to do so, or out of a sense of shamed-into-it?
Also, I keep thinking about how she must suck at being spoiled, actually. If she was any good at whatever game she was playing, she would have been able to pay for the shoes herself once her plan went awry!!
How appalling! I couldn’t imagine doing that to someone. I’ve never in my life asked someone to spoil me. And the last time someone offered, I let him pour me a glass of wine and rub my back.
She sounds like an amateur, thinking she could have a hot young guy like you AND get her shoes paid for. Right about now she’s probably catering to some overweight, middle-aged guy’s pornified version of what a dominatrix is, singing for her expensive supper. If I was in NYC you could massage my feet any day of the week and I’d buy YOU a pair of shoes (as long as you don’t suddenly change your taste for $35 Converse 😉 ).
I would like to add something, while I disagree not at all with the general sentiment.
The funny thing is, IF you had the money for the shoes, and IF you had so much that the cost of the shoes would have truly meant nothing to you, the act of buying the shoes would have been anything but submissive. She literally had no way to impel you to buy the shoes; rather sad case. Girls like that eventually find themselves someone who can and does buy…but more than buying the shoes, they buy the girl. Girls like that, they get dependent real easy.
The whore representation is fair…except that she isn’t actually providing anything. Better off with an actual whore. Or possibly with an artist, if you can find them.
The only thing I think was wrong with the story was that you still confirmed that she was a Goddess when she clearly wasn’t. I presume you’ve changed your opinion about that with time?
I had to chime in. Sounds like she was trying to rape your wallet and run off anyway. This chick was a lame-o in every sense, and there is no way she was smart domme or human being at a baser level. What she pulled was unmannered and crass.
This is very unlike the experiences I’ve had as the domme on the receiving end. Financial kink should be discussed ahead of time and something you establish as a common appeal before it is thrown into the mix… this would be like spontaneously “affectionately” mauling someone in public whether they are into PDA or not… you gotta work up toward something like that. And early encounters should be more for figuring out whether you like the other, but maybe it worked for her to be a “user” in the past, so she was just trying it again.
I’m sorry you had a bad situation with the mentally unstable like this (could just be her poor breeding). It takes a certain kind of woman to make this fun… Financial kink should be waaaaay more pleasurable than this example if you’re into getting a liberating endorphin rush while shopping (hell, I get this whether it’s financed by someone else or not). I’m well off, and usually my counterpart in such activities knows that I could handle so-called “scary amounts” on my own, but the fact that I am accepting their generosity has only been positive for both of us. I know people are skeptical about this all around, and other forms of domination are far less maligned, but I can’t say that I can write it off as not for me… I gladly accept the gesture from a noble sub with benevolent intent or a complete lack of expectation/entitlement which matches my own. 😉
I believe if you’re warming up to someone who is into “spoiling” or what have you, it should be deemed as something which fosters positive feelings (hello, lingerie trip – benefits you both) or even the preamble to foreplay…
And to be in good form, both of you should be in on the adventure afoot, you know, from the get-go. Dominating and blindsiding don’t necessarily go hand-in-hand.
Wow. I realise I am so behind on these tricks. When I say “spoil Me” I mean make Me dinner, massage My feet, keep an eye on when I might need a new pot of tea, look out for books I might like, do the bed the way I like it, come for a walk when I want it, make sure I come first (preferably several times), listen to Me rant and go clean the bathroom if you really have to escape from that rant.
You mean I could have had new shoes as well?
I am trying to remember when a submissive man last bought Me anything, even a coffee. It’s been years, really. Well, My pet buys Me whatever I ask for, but I have to give him the cash so he can afford it! Does that count?
I am so sorry that you had to experience that, it makes all dominant women look bad. I would feel so awkward expecting someone to buy me something on the first date, especially not knowing if they were able to afford it. I hope that you never have to go through something like that again.
Big thumbs down to her. Shame that you had to experience that. I love to be spoiled but to me that means a pack of gummy bears and getting to choose the sex toy me and my partner use, lol. Anyway, you deserve a lot more than some girl that just wants to con you. Seriously, you’re a babe!
I have a different experience. I was with my dominant boyfriend, who at a point said “we have to get you new underware”, which meant the underware he wanted me to wear. I thought it would be a sexy experience, having him choose that kind of stuff. We went out to the mall, and after a few stores he finally found something he wanted to see me in, picked it up and left it on the counter. I was waiting for him to pay, afterall it was HIS choice for HIS pleasure. But he just went away and waited for me to get the bill! It wasn’t that expensive and I could afford it, but it seemed quite rude to make me go out, let him choose the lingerie and make me pay for it…
From that day on, if some guy says he would like to see me wear something – he either buys it or he sees what I choose and pay for.
On another note, I adore being spoiled sometimes… but never with money!
I have had many similar experiences. Axe, with all the domina blogs drying up, you are the man for bdsm kink in nyc now.
She sounds like a bitch. One the other hand…
There are a lot of guys out there that love buying things for women, and I think a lot of dommes think that all subs fall into this category. Up until November last year, I had never had a guy buy me anything (luxury-good-wise). Then I started answering ads on Craigslist from guys that wanted to take a pretty girl shopping. After buying me something, they would profusely thank me for the privilege.
I don’t think it’s financial domination, it’s more like these guys are really traditional and get off on feeling like the gallant.
The men mentioned above I’d definitely call clients, even if it was a barter economy. My boyfriend/sub has never taken me shopping, I have never asked him to, and I never would. He spoils me exactly right! He always brings me four sugars for my coffee and knows that I prefer back scratches to massages.
For me spoiling = pleasuring me until I’m either close to passing out or begging for respite 🙂 [or begging for more and more and…you get the drift]. No $ need exchange hands :-).
Ugh, she gives us all a bad name.
I don’t think of my slaves buying me stuff as spoiling me. Spoiling me is waking me up every morning with a cup of hot tea and a light massage. Spoiling me is telling me I look beautiful even when I have the flu (and me believing them). Spoiling me isn’t paying for everything as much as helping me to make my dreams possible and then sharing them with me if they can.
Sure, every girl loves to go shopping. But I don’t want it to break the bank, and some guys really have nothing else to offer. They don’t interest me very much. I do like the idea of having a slave who can make my every whim come true, service and extravagant shopping, but it’s not what I need.
Ha ha ha :)) , I laugh at this: “Sure the sex would suck but she’d at least have her shoes.”
Nice, very nice !!!
Ahh, the Gold Digger… I remember reading about those in an old mythology book…
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