From Client To Personal Fucktoy

I’ve been encouraged to go to a Professional Dominatrix by a number of lifestyle friends. Not for the experience of playing with one but in the hopes that she would meet me and want to maker me her personal slave or boyfriend. I’ve talked about this subject before of course. Some have told me it’s a bad idea but many have proven that it actually does work. As I’ve mentioned before, a majority of submissive men I personally know in relationships, are former clients.

This subject popped in my brain again recently when a Pro I know mentioned it:

“I find that the BEST relationships are in fact those that go from client to personal. Because there is this anonymity that sessions allow and somehow encourage honesty. Then the bonds are slowly formed without any of the b.s. vanilla that tends to creep in and take away from what really forms that connection with the other person.”

Peridot Ash has me confused on the subject. In one post called “Angry About Clients Seeking Girlfriends” she writes:

“I told him the first time that I do not date my clients, and that includes dinner outside of sessions! Obviously he wasn’t listening when I said that he should keep trying the personals. When I said that it was not easy for me to find my boyfriend (I don’t really have a boyfriend, as you know, but it’s usually the only reason a man respects when it comes to you not wanting to date him), since most men would want me to quit and become their own personal 24/7 domina slave queen (hint, hint).”

Yet in another post she writes:

“Anyway, because he was so attractive, I did what many johns do when they fancy the looks of their paid companion: began conjuring up fantasies of dating, molding him into my perfect little submissive anal sex boy just because I thought he was attractive, not wondering at all about the life he leads in reality. But catching a glimpse of his wedding ring pretty much put a stop to my predatory thoughts.”

Speaking as someone who’d love to be molded into the perfect little submissive almost-any-kind-of-sex boy, my eyebrows raised a bit on this one.

I should say that I’m no where near being in a situation that would allow me to become a client or a boyfriend for that matter, but the day may come where I am. If that day ever does come I’ll have to consider becoming a client and hope that she’ll find me attractive enough to want to mold me.

28 Comments

although it was a very short courtship in the client/pro world for me and Mistress-I can tell you that it does work. I think the important part though is not to have a pre-conceived plan going in, and let tings happen “organically.”

lethrs

I think that what Peridot was mostly talking about in those posts was not client feelings, but client behaviour. I think that Peridot was talking about certain sets of feelings which tend to result in certain sets of unacceptable behaviours. Since it isn’t the feelings which bother her, but the behaviours, you should be ok.

I think if you want to pursue relationship possibilities with a pro dom, you might do well to always be honest with her and disclose your interest in seeking a dominant woman partner (and later on your interest in her specifically if applicable), and to always keep your behaviour within respectful bounds, which I’m very confident you would do anyhow.

If you present your situation to a pro dom, and ask her to use the sessions to help train you regarding your methods of seeking and courting a dominant woman partner, I think it’s possible she might be able to help you. But I think that would take a pretty well developed skill set from any pro dom to achieve that for any client, and you might have to go to a fair few pros before you’ll find one who can realistically help you to do this.

Other than that, if you wanted to seek out some kink-friendly therapy to help you deal with stuff generally (if you haven’t already), that might also be of some help.

Ok, it’s early and I drank a lot last night, so my commenting might not be making any sense. If it does, I take full credit. If it doesn’t, I blame the shoelace industry and all who sail in her. 😉

Well, leave it to me to be the blunt voice of obviousness (yet again).

Going to a pro-domme in the hopes she’ll “mold you” is stupid. It’s stupid because you have the same kinds of odds of something like that working as you have from getting a job by posting your résumé on Monster.com and waiting. Internet job hunting is proven to be less than 5% successful, and though I haven’t the statistics to back this up, I’ll eat my silicone dildo if the statistics on something as stupid as this aren’t also incredibly skewed towards failure.

Ok, I am trying to think of a nicer way to put this, but it’s late, and I am boggled — have you drank the koolaid?!

Being a prodomme is a job. These women are at work. Thinking that you can go in and woo one of her feet is downright insulting. Having worked as a prodomme I can tell you that I had a good many attractive clients, and a good many interesting seeming clients, and I would never go on a date with any of them. Why? Because that would be unprofessional. Also because my job as a prodomme was to create a fantasy of total domination for the men who paid to see me, and I do not want to live in a fantasy 24/7.

What Alisa said. This is A TERRIBLE IDEA. At best, you will waste a lot of time and money and come off as rude and get yourself blacklisted. That’s a best case scenario. Also, has one of these friends run the numbers for you? Prodommes are very, very, very expensive.

I actually said something very, very similar to what Alisa said above me, but it seems my comment is no longer here.

Have to say I agree with the main content of the post. The best relationship I had was when I started seeing the domme away from the dungeon, going out to dinner, seeing a show etc, to us becoming bf/gf. The play was still there and was more intense as it was done on such a personal level. We had a great 3 years together and still speak to each other most weeks, remaining good friends. So, it can and does happen and I know of friends who have had the same thing. Like lethrs, I had no idea this would happen but we just clicked, had a lot of similair interests outside the dungeon and liked each others company. What I did not become, however, was her slave. Yes, sex revolved a lot around bdsm etc. and we explored a lot of things with each other but slavery was never on the agenda. So, all I can say is go for it.

The best advice I can give is “STAY AWAY!” For ever one or two subs you find here saying it works, you are going to find a hundred over in Maxfischland saying it didn’t. Face it, professional domination is the modern day equilivilent of 1960s strip tease. If she can make you think SHE THINKS there is a spark there, you’ll keep coming back and spending more. The very best dominatrices do the same thing. The whole idea is to keep you as a client.

My very first session, the Domme later sent me an email saying “I had a really great time.” I’m thinking, “Wow, this lady is very into me.” Of course, I went back. Since then, I’ve been to dozens of other dommes, and almost all of them either tell you or email you or text you about what a great time they’ve had. Yet, none of them ended up in a personal relationship with me. Odd, isn’t it?

I should emphasise here, that I was not the one to ask for dinner. She asked me if I wanted to go to eat after a long session one time. Before that we were just strictly mistress/client in our relationship. It is only out of the dungeon context that you get to know what a person can be like. I was not looking for a relationship and was quite happy being a single player at the time.

I think we might have talked about this before. I still think it’s a bad idea. Sure, sometimes Pros hook up with their clients. But it’s probably not a good idea to lay out $200+ an hour solely in the hope that it’ll develop into something more.

And I can think of at least 5 Pro Dommes that I know you’re friendly with! If you want to meet someone in particular, I’m sure that between all of us, someone would be able to facilitate a FREE introduction.

I think it is unrealistic to expect that you will meet a girlfriend by seeing prodommes. Seeing prodommes is way fun IMO. Many are wonderful people and I know we know some wonderful ones in common. But I think the “dating strategy” of paid for sessioning in the hopes it will lead somewhere is a quixotic and bank balance bending at best.

Lightening struck for me. My dear domme friend, with whom I have a “pampered lifestyle” relationship, is a semi-retired, married former pro. We met at a session I booked with her at Arena. I wasn’t looking. It just happened. Two years ago she left. I tried desperately to replace her by trying to replicate with prodommes what I had found with her. The results over almost two years ranged from disappointing to near disasterous.

I say see pros if you want, but don’t go in with expectations. As a potential avenue of meeting Mistress Right, it may rank above chatting up the hot woman in Louboutin boots at the supermarket … but not too far above.

Dude, going to a prodom to meet a woman is like going to a stripper or a hooker to find a gf. Nice in the movies, but I doubt it happens much.

Bad idea. End of.

Keep looking…you’ll find someone. This coming from the woman who finally realized she was a dominant female at age 41! I posted an ad on CL and got many responses. Sure, only a very few of them were really serious but it was worth it. I’m now talking to two guys who seem legit and it’s been a lot of fun getting to know both of them.

I think your biggest problem is that you have such high standards…you want someone who looks like a model to beat your ass. Maybe you’ll find that and if you do, wonderful. In the meantime, try to talking to some of the “average” women out there…you just never know when you might uncover a diamond in the rough.

Good luck Axe.

The reality is that the chances of finding a dominant woman for a personal relationship are slim or none. The sex industry provides a service for men’s needs that aren’t being met in relationships. Hookers are in business because men aren’t in sexual relationships. Pro dommes are around because men’s need to be dominated aren’t being met. Likewise, pro submissives are around because men’s need to dominate also aren’t being met. The fact that there are probably 200 pro dommes around for every pro submissive tells me that there are a helluva lot more submissive guys around who can’t find a partner.
I don’t want to sound pessimistic but the numbers just aren’ there.

@Louie Monkey_Pest

IMO, I think part of the issue with submissive male’s needs being met is that often, what they want is a fantasy, not a real woman.

I’ve found in my experience that a good chunk of the submissive men who approach me don’t want a relationship or interaction with ME, but with any dominant lady, and they project their fantasies on them and try to put them in that mold. Some men don’t seem to realize that we’re all individuals, and thus, different. I know its amazing, but not all dominant women like EVERYTHING. Me? I hate forced bi, and forced fem. I have very little interest in bodily fluids like pee. Doesn’t really do much for me. I’m bladder shy.

I had a man spend twenty five minutes in a chat screen trying to convince me that I HAD to pee on him because it would be awesome.
This is after I firmly stated that I have no interest in golden showers.

But of COURSE I should want to. Why wouldn’t I? Aren’t I a top? It would be SUPER DOM of me! It would be the best way for me to assert my dominance over him!

Twenty five minutes. I timed it. The entire time, I wasn’t even saying anything.

This is where sex workers come in. If you want a fantasy, you can go purchase a fantasy. If this guy so desparatly wants to be pee’d on, there are two avenues – find a chick who likes that, or go pay for it.
I think that’s awesome! Great! Go get what you want. But when it comes to non-pros, you’re not getting a fantasy, you’re getting a person who you need to talk to, get to know, and negotiate with. Maybe if this guy had say, gotten to know me, talked to me like a person, had a cup of coffee, or a date, and then said ‘hey, I really dig getting pee’d on, and I know it isn’t your thing, but maybe can we try it?’ things would have gone differently.

I don’t know about everyone else, but I don’t want to be treated like a fantasy object. I want to be treated like a person, and if I happen to fulfill a fantasy, that’s wonderful (like in the case of Sebastian and I. We each fulfilled a specific fantasy for each other. But neither of us were forced into that role by the other.)

I think this is a brilliant idea. About time you take responsibility for your own desires, axe, and face what it is you dream of.

Just look at your blog: The women you post photos of, talk about, rave about, just all over your blog: The women you like are pro Dommes. All the others, the just-your-average Dommes out there in your stories are either ugly, fat, stupid, too demanding, too greedy, not sufficiently Dominant, too focused on what-ever-it-is that is wrong with them or vote for the wrong party. The heroines of your weblog are the Professional Dominants: they are your personal friends, your support network, the names you like to drop, the ones who give you the best experiences, the people you like hanging out with, the ones you want to be accepted by and loved by. Which is, of course, why not having enough money to get easy access to them as sexual objects is the main obstacle in the unspeakable axe story.

Now, I know this may be far from the reality behind the blog. Blogs are edited to be more entertaining, and they cater to their audience – and a lot of your audience is professional Dominants and their customers, since you’re linking heavily to them and function as a portal for them by sending more hits their way.

But if I am to judge from your blog: Good for you that you’re finally realising your own fetish. You fetishise professional Dominants, you want to be loved by them, and you want to be that special guy who is so wonderful as a submissive that the jaded Domme heart melts for you. The ultimate situation for a fetishist: To have easy access to the object of obsession at all times.

“I think part of the issue with submissive male’s needs being met is that often, what they want is a fantasy, not a real woman.

I’ve found in my experience that a good chunk of the submissive men who approach me don’t want a relationship or interaction with ME, but with any dominant lady, and they project their fantasies on them and try to put them in that mold.”

I really love Wendy Blackheart’s comment and think it is perfectly put.

Keep in mind pro Dommes are used to subs wanting to be in longterm relationships with them – that is essentially the whole point of the setup, to create an environment for clients to want to constantly come back. Some (not all) of that is premised on an unrealistic fantasy world – it’s a business built to a certain extent on customer satisfaction (unless you’re a POS who clearly needs to be blacklisted). Life is not Pretty Woman. So most pros have heard/seen it all in terms of wooing and are ‘over it’ to put it bluntly.

It is the “woo-ers” who don’t want to pay, it is the “woo-ers” who want a discount, it is the “woo-ers” who think (unsolicited) gifts are exchanges for mandatory tributes, it is the “woo-ers” who presume you have a ‘special relationship’, it is the “woo-ers” who ask invasive bordering on offensive questions (like “Do you have a boyfriend? Does he not satisfy you is that why you do this?” or “Why would you do this kind of work, you’re such a smart person” or “Can I see you after our session for drinks?”). Typically those folks don’t really think that pro-Dommes wear sweatpants, cry, are stressed out, need support sometimes, have cellulite that they keep well-hidden during sessions, can’t always get into “Domspace” which could partially/mostly be your fault or the fault of the dynamic between you two (see? IMO the bdsm world focuses wayyy too much on ‘subspace’, when Dom/mes have the same issue as well)— and will quickly revert back to wanting to just be a client because it is less ‘work’.

Basically they want the paid fantasy 24/7 but for free and who they get to fuck. Um, no. This is probably why I (personally) hear more (straight) Dommes complaining about topping from the bottom and feeling stressed out about feeling like they need to ‘perform’ at all times than our (straight) male Dom counterparts. Male subs need to be more realistic.

I’ve heard of client/pro relationships inadvertently happening, but usually the client has no explicit motive and the pro likes that he respects her time as a professional and pays her consistently (with bonuses) and sees her consistently and is not a pain in the ass AND is a creative thinker. Meh.

Good points by Wendy, Cinder and MJ.

We are really in the “Pro Domming” of all of bdsm. Pro Domme ads and videos are all over the internet. Must sub men have visited a pro domme. So the leather clad bitch with a whip becomes the standard. Dominant women who don’t look like Halle Berry dressed up like catwoman don’t think they measure up. Sub men think think they need to be 24/7 slaves. Plus, all pro domming is really topping from the bottom. I call, want to be peed on, pay my money,get what I want. The same is expected in a personal relationship.

The funny thing I found from my few non-session interactions with pro dommes is that their personality is a lot different from what they project or they are so mentally whacked out that there is no way I could possibly maintain a long term personal relationship with them.

I think it’s a bit of a vicious circle. The porn industry helps to foster unrealistic fantasy imagery in kink, which clients then bring to their sessions with pro doms, who then have to provide a service according to the demands and expectations of their clients.

In vanilla, at least people have role models and examples to look to for validation outside the sex industry, such as films, books, television, etc. Unfortunately, kinky people have incredibly few (if any) widely propagated resources such as these. So where are the clients of pro doms supposed to get information about realistic kinky relationships in life?

I don’t know where they’re supposed to get it, but it’s clear to me that they aren’t getting it. Then again, a lot of guys in vanilla don’t have a clue either. I think the difference there is that there are a whole lot more of them in vanilla, so the choice is broader. We few in kink must unfortunately make do with what we can find.

Very few days go by in which I don’t notice feeling very appreciative and fortunate to have the primary partner I do have, although that doesn’t stop me from wishing I could find a group of potential partners to choose from which were more suited to my needs.

I’ve been considering running a workshop to show local submissive men what is and isn’t appropriate behaviour for when they’re seeking a dominant woman partner. But I don’t know if an idea like that would ever get off the ground. I don’t feel optimistic about it.

Ouch:) Thanks for all the comments.

I’ll simply state that:

A: As I pointed out, it’s been pointed out to me by other Pro Dommes that this is a good idea.

B: I know one submissive male in a relationship with a non-pro and four that are in relationships with professionals.

C: This is really a moot point since I’ll not be able to afford going to a pro anytime in the near future.

D: Insert something clever here.

Oh, wow, pro doms were saying to you that this was a good idea?? That wasn’t the impression I got from this:

“I’ve been encouraged to go to a Professional Dominatrix by a number of lifestyle friends […] in the hopes that she would meet me and want to maker me her personal slave or boyfriend.

This subject popped in my brain again recently when a Pro I know mentioned it:

‘I find that the BEST relationships are in fact those that go from client to personal.'”

I was under the impression that lifestyle (i.e. non-pro)friends were advising you to do this. But now you’re saying your pro dom friends are advising you to do this??

Are you sure your pro dom friend was actually advising you to do this when she said ‘I find that the BEST relationships are in fact those that go from client to personal.’?

I’d like to add that I have a pro dom friend who often says that any male partner who cares about his pro dom woman partner would try to discourage her from being a pro dom, and not to do so usually makes him a pimp. I don’t know how right she is about this. Nevertheless, she does keep saying it quite often.

Is there any other stuff you left out?

A: As I pointed out, it’s been pointed out to me by other Pro Dommes that this is a good idea.

Axe, with all due respect, and with all due respect to prodommes, your point A is basically a reason not to do that. See, for instance, any of the above comments that mention how good prodommes are at making people think that paying them for a fake relationship actually works.

Interesting, well thought-out comments, almost every one.

I say, “Follow your bliss”… and most, if not all, of us don’t know what it is till we’ve tried… even then it’s doubtful… furthermore it changes with age — that damn one-way street!

I feel your pain Axe. There are so many more submissive men than dominant women that its almost impossible to find a partner. It just seems that the societal pressures on woman to NOT be dominant are greater than the societal pressures on men to NOT be submissive. I wish there was a good answer to your problem.

I was under the impression that lifestyle (i.e. non-pro)friends were advising you to do this. But now you’re saying your pro dom friends are advising you to do this??

Just wanted to point out that many Professionals are also Lifestyle.

E, I know. I simply don’t normally make the assumption that all lifestyle people are pros. Also, my experience is that most people use “lifestyle” as a term to differentiate kinky people who don’t make a living from kink from those who do.

I do get that many pros are also lifestyle. I agree that it was a point worth emphasising.

Hi guys, just started a blog inspired by what I’ve read about Pro-Dommes from unspeakable’s.

ATM, I would say that all the views mentioned are applicable to certain Pro-Dommes depending on their situation. I have gone to one where I couldn’t imagine she cared about anything else apart from focusingon the client’s needs and doing a good job at fulfilling them which is a great professional skill.

I have also gone to a Pro-Domme who was herself as much as possible in session, knew of her likes/dislikes and some personal info from a BDSM social site, and she focused the session around suggesting things I could do for her based around that than the other way around.

Then there’s the unique sitatuation where you know a Lifestyle Domme socially, and go to her Professionally, which I am attempting atm!

Also some comments indicate that a personal connection can’t happen because the male has too much of a fantasy image? I can imagine this being true, but then when the client who comes in for a personal genuine D/s experience why wouldn’t you invest a little more of yourself into it as then you can be yourself!

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shifting lines between love and commerce, personal and professionalNovember 12, 2008 at 7:44 pm

[…] Unspeakable Axe has an interesting discussion of professional sex relationships, when one or both wants it to become personal. […]

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