Yeah…I don’t know either.
I do know more Domme/Dom couples than Domme/sub couples. It’s something that I do occasionally feel frustrated by.
Why is that? Is there really such a low number of quality submissive men that many Dommes would rather have the exact opposite of what they prefer sexually?
My frustration comes from the fact that this is the one thing I should be able to do better than an Alpha male-dom type and yet they still win. It’s like knowing that the jock in high-school won the Nobel prize in physics just after he won the lottery.
Maybe there’s an x-factor that I’m not taking into consideration. It could be that the need to have someone to relate to is a higher priority for most Dommes, they may enjoy playing with a submissive but they prefer to have someone on their level when it comes to a long-term relationship.
I’ve never actually asked any of the Domme/Dom couples why they think that’s the case. It may be that when it all comes down to it, you can’t choose who you fall in love with. It just happens.
Then again, it could be the fact that I doubt any dominant men write posts on their blog pouting about how the Alpha male got the girl yet again.
I suspect as a dominant woman with a partner who is a dominant man, I had ought to comment here, eh? My reasoning may not be representative, of course. People who know me in RL and might have heard a story with things not said here or things here that weren’t said to you, kindly don’t feel offended: I tell the how-we-met story differently based on the question that’s asked and the things that occur to me at the time, and I am, after all, trying (and failing) to keep this comment brief!
When my partner and I got together, I wanted, very much, to have a partner who sympathized with BDSM, nonmonogamy, feminism, bisexuality, sex-positivity, childfreedom, etc.; *and* I wanted, very much, to have a partner who sympathized with my desires for stability, and with certain aspects of ‘privileged,’ ‘traditional,’ ‘conservative’ lifestyles that I either aspired to or inhabited. People talk about the house in the suburbs with 2.5 kids and the dog Spot. Well, I wanted a house in the suburbs with 2.5 secondary partners, and a basement with the dungeon furniture and canes on the walls, and, sure, a dog or two. I wanted to share this house with a reasonably young person, under 35 or so, who was clever and intelligent, who had relatively similar goals, politics, ethics, and social and cultural beliefs, and who could sympathize with both the house part and the dungeon part. And since quite a lot of people I was meeting who were okay with the BDSM, poly, bi parts were deeply culturally ‘alternative’–lovely thing, often very attractive and shiny, often very nice, often plenty smart, and yet missing a big piece of what I thought I wanted in a companion–I was willing to make some sacrifices, and one thing I thought I could sacrifice was BDSM orientation. I don’t remember thinking that there was anything special about dominants or dom-inclined-switches that would make them better for me, more ‘on my level,’ as you wrote, Axe; I remember thinking that I wasn’t finding what I wanted and expanding to other orientations would increase the pool and better my odds. I thought this about other qualities than BDSM orientation, too, but that’s not the topic. I didn’t know whether dating dominants and toppy switches was going to work, but I thought it was worth trying. I remember thinking that I had previously ended relationships that just weren’t working, and while it wasn’t exactly fun, neither was it horribly traumatic, so I knew I could do it again if I wanted to.
I started dating my now-partner, we kept dating, and I discovered that you can certainly choose whom you put yourself in a position to fall in love with, but that’s about as far as the choosing can go. This alternately irritated and amused me.
That was a few years ago. By now, although I’ve since met submissives–women and men–who might have been both conservative and adventurous enough for my tastes, I’m so invested in and happy with my partnership that it would take a lot to make me end it, and so these people sometimes turn out to be good candidates for secondaries or playmates. It’s not about being with “a dominant man,” now, it’s about being with, ah, that fellow who really needs to come up with an online nickname. 🙂 Are there power struggles in my partnership? Some; I don’t think there would be more than if we were vanilla, but that’s a counterfactual, and we all know how hard those are to think with. We work things out like any members of a couple with reasonably strong personalities. I imagine the fact that my partner identifies more with sadism and dacryphilia, rather than social and relational dominance, helps a great deal: he’s pretty easygoing and not hard to persuade. And, too, I’m perfectly happy to cede authority on a set of decisions–so, we’re redecorating that house in the suburbs, and he’s much better than I when it comes to construction stuff, thus I happily defer to him on the best way to strip paint. As for a dominant man being the exact opposite of what I prefer sexually, and a dominant woman not being what my partner prefers sexually: well, that’s why nonmonogamy is a beautiful thing. 😉 And, too, perhaps glorious, helpful, relationship-saving nonmonogamy will seem a consolation to you: most dom/dom couples are not exclusive, thus, the women in such relationships are not necessarily out of reach of submissive men.
I think you must be working with a very skewed sample population. Over a fairly long period of time and having lived in several US cities I’ve never seen any sign that dominant with dominant is the norm either in heterosexual or same sex pairings.
sweeite I met my husband telling him I was a dominant woman. only thing was that I fell in love with hi just for he being who he is.. very vanila. then He understood his dom side.
ahhh then he finally learned about me…yeah he didn’t leave me and leraned I would always need this side. And had this side before.
He does understand my need and my fustration, he knows that I want more then something simple.
Do you hate that we are a couple? You should not because I seek a relationship.. I seek something that is not behoden on another but myself.
Even if they are a couple know that that you can have a relationship.
Take what I have to offer,,,, a secondary relationship where I intend on loving that person and that person being at part of my family… sigh… can’t speak right now head ache extreme is grabbing hold.
I’m dating a dominant now. I’ve always had an attraction to doms or switches as well as to subs. The difference with the more dominant types seems to be the passion and energy. This is not to say that subs aren’t passionate, many are. I just find it’s displayed more often with men who have a dominant streak.
I’ve gone so far as to post one ad that states I’m seeking a man with a “generally dominant personality who enjoys pleasing and submitting behind closed doors.” That gives the basic idea…I want a guy who’s relatively confident, outgoing and still wants to please a woman.
Another thing I’ve found is that a more dominant man is more likely to reach out and touch me whereas a sub will keep his hands to himself until told. Sounds about like it should, right? The downside here is that there’s a lack of passion. I love that he obeys, but when given the chance, I want him to want to ravish me too. His submission should make him more sexy, not less.
Sophiste: Thank you sooo much for taking the time to share that story. It really shed some light for me.
Mz Carmen: No, of course I don’t hate that you’re a couple. I’m happy that you’re happy and loved. It’s just hard to get my head around. I can’t personally imagine falling in love with a submissive. But who knows right? Maybe a really demanding one hehe. Hope your headache feels better soon.
MsS&S: I hear that often, the fact that a Domme wants someone who’s dominant but submissive to her. That’s a whole other post:)
In an attempt to be brief because I am sleepy, my two cents on the topic is simply that the typical submissive man is the kink equivalent of the asshole jock you write about, even though you seem to equate that persona with the dominant man. I don’t hear many stories of happy long-term relationships with “The Bad Boy” or “The Jock” that don’t also happen to have occurred during the participant’s teenage years….
I think a lot of self-identified submissives really want a second Mommy (that is something I find in a lot of the female-led relationship stuff and it sends me screaming for the hills, running as fast as I can).
I’m good friends with some male Doms out here, and I have to say they do a lot better job of asking me out on dates and letting me know they are interested than subs, and at least I know they understand kink and non-monogamy.
I think Sophiste nailed it on the head, why I would date a Dom guy- enough of the important things fit, and a lot of the time they’ll be assertive enough to get my attention, which increases the odds one of them would have enough chemistry to make things move along.
Sorry if this is rambly, I’m dead tired.
I don’t think there are any absolutes to this, people tend to date/fuck/marry a person rather than date/fuck/marry an orientation, after all.
I’ve never dated a dominant man. I date submissive men and vanilla (i.e. they don’t self-define as anything at all in a kink/bdsm way… I’d define them differently but I respect their right to call themselves vanilla *wink*) exclusively. So my perspective has more to do with what I overhear dominant women say.
What I have noticed, however, is that my fellow dominant women talk about submissive men, they express a frustration with the roll-over-play-dead mentality. Yes, they are submissive. Yes, that is what they want. But to be with someone who needs you to make every move, every decision can move quickly from d/s into annoying and exhausting.
Yet more patheticness from the lame duck on crutches fetish scene. I think that many half decent sub males if they bother with the scene at all that is, are likely to not want to relate to it, if most of these sub guys are pointless then why would one want to represent themself with or associate themself as a male sub? There are sub men who date sub women too.
Doms date Dom(me)s and subs date subs.
Can the stoopid people just fuck off and drown and leave it too the ones with an IQ above 70? (retarded).
As a somewhat switchy top man who seems to end up dating top women, I wanted to take a stab at this.
I think the most important piece here is that most tops/doms seem to switch to some extent. We don’t talk about this much in the community, but it’s very common. This means that top/top or dom/dom relationships are often viable on the kink level (as well as the sexual, emotional, etc levels).
Now, I have definitely run into problems where the dom/dom thing made sex or play difficult, or otherwise hampered the relationship. But that only happens sometimes – most of the time things go great.
Like you say, sometimes chemistry just wins the day over top/bottom or dom/sub orientation. Or hell, over sexual orientation. I think this is one of the reasons switching is becoming so common these days – people end up in situations they didn’t anticipate and they just figure out how to handle the other role. This happened recently to a submissive woman I know, who started dating a submissive guy and needed to figure out how to hurt him like he needs.
All that said, my three most serious relationships right now are with submissive/bottom women. So I do lean a certain way for the long-term stuff, though it is just a lean: I’ve had long-term relationships with top women in the past.
I’ve been working my way through your (very enjoyable and engaging) blog, and so some of my comments will be on old posts.
I come across significant numbers of married partners who are both submissive, or kinky and vanilla, bisexual and straight, polyamorous and monogamous, and so on. I think the issue you identify is less about power exchange dynamics, and more about how many people can end up with partners who might not be entirely right for them.
I think that partnerships comprised of submissives are less often self-identified and “out there” than ones comprised of dominants. So we may not hear so often about those.
I don’t know if this topic is still important to you, since this is an old post. Nevertheless, I felt I wanted to contribute, even if my reply was just the teensiest bit lacking in the timeliness department. 🙂