Pro-Dommes: Good Or Bad?

Ah, here’s a touchy one.

I do have a few friends who are, or were Pro-Dommes so my thoughts on this may be a bit skewed due to my adoration of them.

I know many people in the lifestyle who have nothing but hatred for Pros. I’m not one of them. In fact, I am very grateful that lifestyle pros exist.

After all, if a guy out there just needs a kinky fix and will go to a Pro, that’s one less guy that I’m competing with out in the real world. Pros thin the herd. They help remove the guys that would otherwise be standing in my way of meeting someone.

Also, what if some woman sees an image of a Pro and is inspired to become a lifestyle Domme because the idea turns her on? It could happen!

I think the reason is because there are many different types of people who will dominate for money and some of these other kinds get mislabeled as a Pro-Domme.

There’s the woman who will lead a guy on, try to make him think she wants a relationship but he needs to prove his submission to her by giving her a tribute. I fell for this a couple of times when I first moved to NYC. My desire to serve blinded me into thinking that she really was interested in me, this was just the best way to separate myself from the phonies. Yeah…not smart. I’m ashamed to say I fell for it three times (and lost around $600) before my credit card helped me see the light.

There are unscrupulous Pro-Dommes out there of course.

Ugh…I can still remember a very painful memory of how I was tricked by one. Well, I was stupid and naive so that doesn’t help either.

Just after I moved to the city I found a Domme on Collarme who was very interested in me. After a week or so she wanted to meet. She wanted to meet me at a dungeon she likes to take her subs to, I would be required to pay the $100 “rent” for the dungeon. I told her I wasn’t interested in Pros and she assured me that she was wanted me as her personal slave but this was just the way that she went about meeting her potential subs. It was the interview process.

I arrived and quickly realized it was a dungeon filled with Pros but I decided to go along with it, after all, maybe she was the real deal.

We went to her room and she had me kneel. We talked for a few minutes then she had me strip and she bound me to a spreader-bar hanging from the ceiling. She didn’t want to know anything about me really. I could almost tell that this wasn’t personal for her in any way. She toyed with me for a few minutes and after she was done she told me that she still wasn’t sure about me. I would have to come back at least four more times and bring $250 each time if I wanted to be considered.

As the door on the elevator to the dungeon closed behind me, I began to cry.

She knew I didn’t have that kind of money, yet she told me if I really wanted to be her slave I would find a way.

How is it that I’m not filled with hatred for everyone who charges after that? I don’t know. Probably because I do know of a few who are honorable the way they do it. I don’t mix them in with the bad ones.

Here’s the other thing, I like knowing it’s there for me as an option. While I can’t imagine going to one, I like knowing that someday (maybe soon) it may be the only way for me to experience it.

I’ve spent thousands of dollars (debt) going on countless dates that don’t go past the expensive dinner, attended many events and paid for memberships to dating sites that haven’t yielded anything more than a handshake. Rather than feeling empty after doing all of that, wouldn’t it be better if I felt empty after experiencing some play? It would probably cost less in the long run.

Just like anything else there are good people and bad people. Good presidents and bad presidents. Good mechanics and bad mechanics. Good Pro-Dommes and bad Pro-Dommes.

I’m grateful for the good ones.

42 Comments

wow. that’s really sad that pro took advantage of you like that. that pisses me off.

Two things, one is a question:

Just like anything else there are good people and bad people. […] Good Pro-Dommes and bad Pro-Dommes.

I’m grateful for the good ones.

Have you actually given patronage to any of the “good ones”?

After all, if a guy out there just needs a kinky fix and will go to a Pro, that’s one less guy that I’m competing with out in the real world. Pros thin the herd. They help remove the guys that would otherwise be standing in my way of meeting someone.

No offense is intended to you personally by this, and admittedly this is a very simplified presentation of the idea, but it’s precisely this kind of competitive attitude that breeds pissing contests, macho stupidity, backstabbing, infighting, reputation sabotaging, and a number of other things that I have personally witnessed happen time and time again between dominant men, submissive men, and vanilla men. When will men learn that this behavior doesn’t serve us? If it did, don’t you think things would “be better” by now?

Also, this is a rather sad post. I hope you’re feeling not-so-bad at the moment.

I think a lot of mansubs think the way you to – that prodom is the only thing they are going to get.

It’s a trick.

If the overwhelming status of prodom were diminished somewhat there would be more dominant women around and feeling comfortable – not that pros need to be made illegal or something, but the reason you know so many as friends is due to their status and ubiquity. They are practically the gatekeepers of femdom.

The deeply ingrained notion that pay-for-play is the *norm* is very toxic for women who might otherwise want to be part of this.

I believe that there are pro-dommes and there are scam artists. A pro-domme will always let you know that she is a pro. If not, she is simply a scam-artist and I am sorry to hear that you came across one of those.
It took me quite some time after I first entered into this lifestyle before I could accept the existance of pros, but once I did, I found them rather useful, and very friendly.
I am approached by quite a few men that want to test the waters, and find out if submission is something they may or may not like. Most of those are just looking for some spice and not real submission.
That is where the pros come in. The good pros that is. Rather than coming to me and using me to find out if they are even remotely interested in it when it is irl, they can visit a pro.

Maymay- Nope I’ve never paid for it knowing that it was just a paid session and I don’t think I could, but you never know. Oh and no I wasn’t feeling sad when I wrote this. Just reflective.

Ms Jones- Is it a trick? It sure feels real sometimes. If more lifestyle Dommes would come out of the woodwork first, then the pros wouldn’t need to peddle their wares.

Its not comfortable being a submale yet I am out there looking. Is my drive to submit just stronger than most Dommes desire to dominate? I don’t know if I buy the comfort thing. Its hard. Damn hard. Am I just more brave or desperate than the average domme-in-hiding?

Mariah- You said it much better than I.

Axe, I’m glad I found the link to your site, and wow – quite the start. I can relate.

I want to encourage you to get out and involved in the lifestyle scene in NYC. Not the online one, not the pro one, but the lifestyle one. The muches and tes.org in NYC are bigger and more established than most areas.

With that said, the reality is that (and these are my stats) there are 100 male subs for everyone 1 female dom. And there are a dozen male dom/female sub relationship for every single FD/ms relationship. There are also more than 3 licks to the center of a tootsie pop.

Either way, as someone who’s been on a similar journey as yours (for most of my adult life) I think many of the FD/ms relationships are quiet and personal and almost never seen or heard about. But they are out there. Do you best to make yourself the best sub you can and be available. Sincere Fem Doms who are seeking partners have friends who often do the recommending for them, so being out there and being sincere is the right way to go about it.

Best wishes on your journey,

Aarkey

PS. I also love the way that you look up on the pros who help “thin the herd.” That’s an awesome analogy.

One of my good pals in the scene is a pro. I know her at all because she also comes to our club (where you can’t play for money), where she dresses like a normal person (not like a shiny dominatrix, which she does for work, of course), and plays with her boyfriend and other friends.

And I have (gasp) visited her as a client as well.

It’s reprehensible to trick people out of money, but at the same time, don’t be stupid. The minute money comes up you should be out of there. If I were meeting a submissive guy for a date, I wouldn’t even ask him to pay my way into the club (all of $15).

Here in Denver, there seem to be plenty of non-pro doms, but most are older (middle aged) and not very hot looking. (I’m not hot looking myself.) The more criteria you have, the harder it is to find someone.

This is not about criteria, or thinning the heard, or any of that (excuse my French) crap. Bitchy’s exactly right, and it’s what she and I have been saying on opposite sides of the same coin for fucking ever.

Everything, and I mean fucking EVERYTHING, in this culture normalizes the idea of men as sex consumers and women as sex providers—FOR PAY. Which it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out how, as Bitchy aptly put it, toxic that entire system is to anyone who doesn’t equate sex with money, which I think is fair to say is most of us who are commenting on this post.

It’s the same stupid magic trick every time. This not a chicken and egg debate, it’s not about putting the fault onto dominant women who aren’t interested in money to come out of the woodwork and get into the scene because they’re not having a really big problem finding submissive men, don’t you know? It’s about getting rid of all the crap that the scene (and mainstream culture, I might point out, as your femdom in advertising pictures point out at the top of every page on this blog) that equates female sexuality with a man’s bank balance.

End. Fucking. Rant.

‘If more dominant women would come out of the woodwork’.

Oh, so it’s *our* fault. I do apologise for not rushing to hang out with you and your insulting, latex-encased, greedy, misogynistic, male-defined-versions-of-my-sexuality friends!

Damnit, Axe, *why* do you think women aren’t coming out to the woodwork? This attitude, that I’ve seen before, almost contemptuous of dominant women for refusing to show themselves – for not being as ‘brave and desperate’ – without even considering that the reason these women are not here might have something to do with the way male submissives think about women.

The prodom situation is a big part of this. Equating female sexuality with a monetary value is almost always about men controlling female sexuality. Male submissives fall for this trick more than most because they are so desperate to control female sexuality.

Also, *Ms* Jones? I’m not a primary school teacher. Call me Beej.

May and Beej (Sorry about the Ms Jones )-

Pleeeeeae know that the last thing I wanted to do was to offend. I feel really bad about that. Please know I don’t hold women who don’t come out of the woodwork in contempt. It’s just so hard not to ask why. I’m grabbing at straws here.

Still, it begs the question:

What’s the difference between women who feel this way and still do come out of the woodwork and those that don’t?

Ok…crawling back into my hole of shame.

Axe, I’m harsh, bad at being diplomatic, and rant about this because I lose my head time and time again seeing people who I think should have understood this by now but don’t, like you, since I think you’re totally wrong about this issue, but that doesn’t mean you’ve offended me. I’m simply angry and exasperated by this mess.

What’s the difference between women who feel this way and still do come out of the woodwork and those that don’t?

The difference is that the ones who participate do so on their own terms, and if you’ve noticed, they don’t play with men who try to control them. Not that you’re trying to control women, you’re not, but most men—even submissive men—do try, as a result everyone including you and I are left feeling the result: a scarcity of dominant women in het scene spaces. All the other women are pros.

Why do you think there’s such a relative abundance of women-who-are-willing-to-top (even if they don’t identify as dominant) in places like Conversio Virium? Because the few submissive men who are around there aren’t dipshits about it.

And this is not just a kink issue, which is why we’re constantly seeing everyone drawing astute correlations between F/m D/s dynamics and vanilla dating; because the common complaint among women every sexuality space ever invented is that men are too controlling. It’s just even more crazily bizarre that most submissive men are just as blind to this fact as every other guy in existence because D/s dynamics are all about power and control.

Ah, no hole of shame.

Why do some women manage to stay here? Strange mixed circumstances. I nearly gave up on kink, but I happened to meet the right people at the right time. Also, I’m probably more sexual and filth driven than most women I know…

And even though I am here, I am pretty damn angry about how femdom treats women.

Keep looking, Ax. There’s someone out there whose needs dovetail with yours, for sure. Enjoy the journey. I am, vicariously, and I thank you.

I’m a lifelong dominant woman who has never been in public scene space. A few years ago I started finding sites like maymay’s and bitchy’s, and I agree with them about why people like me avoid coming out of the woodwork. The one part of being who I am sexually is that I hate the idea of being associated with a whore — oops I mean “pay for sex” or “pay for sexually charged non-sexual-contact play (WTF?)”.

I’m turned on by binding, spanking, teasing, and otherwise dominating my partners. I’ve always been that way. What a bummer that society’s default assumption about my sexual turn-ons is that it’s what hookers in high heels and latex do.

I’ve found lovers through vanilla dating, and more recently, I met my husband on a BDSM dating site. Lots of people recommend munches and such. I just can’t do that, although it sounds in some ways like fun. If femdom weren’t the way it is image-wise, maybe I’d be out there.

Thank you for sticking up for some of us Pro Dommes. I have retired because it messed too much with my sexuality. I will tell you this I met more genuine submissives through my DDI ads in the past then on collarme or Alt.com

In fact a few cleints when I ran the ads I stopped charging and they did become relationships.

I am reading about your quest and I must tell you if you read me recently I have been on a quest for the right submissive for a few years now. I know finding the right person can take a while but don’t give up, you will.

Put yourself out there, attend munches and community events. (Only thing about events out of town I end up wishing all those wonderful connections were closer)

I will not give up on finding the local person for myself because I have found them in the past. My might even has toyed with placing another DDI ad just to see what that would bring in.

I can’t agree with maymay and Beej more about the fact that these are dynamics that permeate society anywhere on the spectrum from vanilla to the kinkiest kinkster of kink-land.

A: Pro Dommes will advertize anywhere they can.

B: The male sub dip shits that just want a fix and pester Dommes who want a boyfreind make these Dommes dissapear.

C: With the proportion of commercial Dommes including Pros that advertize all over, I speaking as someone intelligent would think it rude not to offer money to a Domme based upon what I see if I came across for the 1st time.

D: Apparently most Pro Dommes arent actually into it.

E: Doing it for money is an ironic parody of the social mores and misconceptions of the outside world that caused the problems for this sexual dynamic in the 1st place.

F: Pro Dommes make claims to altruism even though an equal exchange whithin its own right is not that.

G: This kind social cock n cash social environment full of “Pros” and their boyfreind$, as talked of above by maymay keeps the social grease defective from the wheels of sexual liberation.

H: An environment in which money is so prevelant almost knocks the concept of competition out of the window. Brad Pitt on his hands and knees (for ramdom imaginary example) stands little chance against a fat lazy fool and his wallet who maybe even laughs his face off at how much a stud he is getting all the hot chicks. Dommes find it well hard to find a boyfreind as it is so what in the heck do Pro Dommes think they are on?

and thankyou for the £5300 free overtime trying to make me into your boyfreind which was completely unexpected and confusing when I was a teen before I knew anything about any scene then looking on crappy places full of Pros all over the internet making me think it was some kind of trick followed by an adverse drug reaction.

you sad fucking deluded bitches.

Thanks for the £thousands free overtime as a teenager before I knew nothing about a scene then looking to see your asses all over the personals making me think it was some kind of trick. I would never go out with a prostitute, sorry it just that I see my sexuality as just as valid as anyone elses therfore I call you protitutes.

*sucks up saliva and phlegm* PTUUUUGH!!! (spit)

Lol whoops 2 got through then

GOD I FUCKING HATE THEM SOMETIMES,

“I know many people in the lifestyle who have nothing but hatred for Pros”

Get them a cold beer on me.

In the 70’s and 80’s in the scenes inception as much as it would have been smaller, proportionally there where loads more Dommes and more F/m relationships (according to a freind who has been around Donkeys years). This was at a time before the internet when you could physically tell people where to go while now we have an abundance of Pros all over the personals sites and the net (a transition phase for newcomers into the scene upon which they may base their decisions) and now in some places we have harldy any Dommes at all and mostly Pro’s.

Pro Dommes split the 1 demand and supply / social environment derivative into 2 opposite directions, on one hand they use it to support Pro Domming then on the other complain about their personal life such as when they whinge about a lack of decent subs. If you are intelligent you would realize thats a contradiction.

Somehow they manage to convince themselves that they will actually find a sub boyfreind, in truth I think a lot of them never will while I notice an ex-Pro above who says shes has been looking for her sub partner for a while now good luck because if you havent noticed I guess that you have come across a lot of the culture that you yourself have helped create, well done. It is hard enough for many Dommes already who decide not to give credence to the “subs not seeing Dommes as real people but just Domme” phenomena already.

What is even more repuslive is how some of them decide to give up and not want a sub boyfreind anymore, then they faff out in a pathetic whinge like nobody was good enough for them as if they are some kind of superflouos entity and say “Ooooh male subs are so crap, they never saw me as a real person but just as “Domme” (even though it was ok if they paid me)

Whats even more repulsive on top of that is how Pro Dommes split the 1 demand and supply / social environment derivative into 2 opposite directions, on one hand they use it to support Pro Domming then on the other complain about their personal life such as when they whinge about a lack of decent subs. If you are intelligent you would realize thats a contradiction.

In spite of all the costumes and whips etc (which is really beside the point) I will say in all honesty that I dont think I have ever come across anything more pathetic in my entire life.

Im with maymay on his sentiments about the “Well until the Dommes come out of the woodwork”.

They come to the scene for a short while then get fed up and LEAVE.

Lame Pro Dommes tw**s will pass the buck and go “Ooooh but until more Dommes come out of the woodwork” BUT THEY AREN’T REALLY ATTRACTED TO THE SCENE FOR SOME REASON I WONDER WHY.

Die alone Pro Dommes, you will.

Die alone Pro Dommes, you will.

lol sorry I know, many of you couldnt care less about actually dating a male sub so I suppose that comment was a bit pointless. There are some who want to date a male sub but their lives arent exactly made easy.

“After all, if a guy out there just needs a kinky fix and will go to a Pro, that’s one less guy that I’m competing with out in the real world. Pros thin the herd. They help remove the guys that would otherwise be standing in my way of meeting someone”

No, the whole commercial abundence both ways puts Dommes off while some Dommes hang around for a while then just dissappear when they realize they are wasting their time looking for a parntner, therefor it lessens your chances.

There is little social grease on the cogs of sexual liberation to attract a sex that associates the enjoyement of sexuality with social security.

Pro Dommes are just riding off the back of sexual repression and maintaining it.

Wow I’m feelin alot of hate in this room.
I have been a pro Domme for 10 years . I must say that for 99% of them they are hookers with whips , hey most don’t put out so there not even doing a thorough job as whores (lol). That said there are a few good ones out there you just need to know how to tell one from the other.

A . I would never take just any sub as a client .I must have a personal feel for who they are what they need and why. I chat online for atleast a few weeks and have a face to face meeting without any play before any arrangments are made.

b. I would never ask for or take money untill we have both decided it was in the subs best interest.

c. I do not just do it for money . I love what I do , and take my role in helping my subs to grow seriously.Ask If your Domme dose this just as a job or as part of who she is.

I have known dozens of Pro Dommes and out of them all I can only think of 2 I would call good.A “Pro” is or should be an expert in their chosen work . you would not go to a just anyone to treat an illness you would go to a real DR. I have always helped the subs in my charge to grow into real relationships , and shown them how to embrace their submisive needs inorder to find what will truly make them happy. Many subs new to BDSM ,and some that have been involved but lost in finding what they deeply want , need to be shown the way . I aid them in that quest . As for money, have you seen how much the tools needed for this cost ! nevermind the time put into a sub outside of play. I think as with any theropist it is well worth it . Just make sure you are getting the real thing . A real Domme Pro or not considers the sub as a whole person not just a paycheck , and pushes him to find the full time relationship he needs in the long run while teaching him to better understand his needs . Hard to find but we are out there

BTW I care alot about dateing a real sub .why is it that you subs are faster to shell out 500 bucks an hour than to buy me dinner lol

I agree with what has been said here, there is a difference between a pro dom and a scam artist! A professional dominatrix will make it quite clear that she charges and also how much she charges.

I don’t agree though with some of the comments which seemed to be that if Pro Doms disappeared overnight the resulting gap would be filled by eager women who had been put off by the idea that some doms do it for money.

My experience of the scene is that if a man is a sub and he is with a woman who loves him (and who knows about it) she may well decide to dom him, its to make him happy and its part of their relationship. It doesn’t mean that if they split up for whatever reason she will continue to dom people, the next man may be interested in yachts and she will get involved in that instead.

I am sure the same thing applies the other way about, and there are men who will spank their partner if she’s turned on by the idea, but they aren’t necessarily a lifestyle dominant guy who will do that to the next one, if she prefers being taken shopping for shoes.

I think the key here is the word ‘relationship’ and the relationship comes first, sex, BDSM, shoe shopping and yachts should be just part of the relationship.

I think where a lot of sub guys fail is that they are looking first of all for domming, for a woman to dom them. Their view of a lifestyle relationship is all about the lifestyle and the relationship comes second.

When men do that, they are scamming the woman just as much as as she does if she pretends to be offering a relationship when she is just after cash.

I also wonder how much complaints about women being paid for domming is sour grapes? if it was the sub guy who was in so much demand that he could both charge and get dommed – how many subby guys out there would refuse?

I think you would find that the internet would soon be snowed under with eager sub guys asking to do it for cash.

To my mind pro domming is double the pleasure. You get the pleasure of domming and the pleasure of being paid for it.

Also charging for domming is one of the few areas where women have greater financial power than men. Its nice to have some genuine power. The difference between men who visit pro doms and lifestylers are that the ones who visit pro doms are ok with women having financial power (and what sort of genuine power is there that isn’t financial?)

That is why I have huge respect for the men who visit me, they know where the power is and by paying they have had to admit that it is with me.

Mistress Rebecca is a UK based dom who sees men for domming on a professional basis only. Specialities hypnosis, CP and feminisation.

I think you may be looking in the wrong place. I highly recommend that you NOT look for love in a pro session environment. It will leave you sad and unsatisfied. There are many dating sites and with any dating sites there will be pros scouting for clients. Just don’t be a client. Go to munches, conventions, and events in your area and make friends that enjoy kink too. Those friends can introduce you to a Dominant Woman looking for a male sub. I know of many Dommes that are not pros but they do not put up with any demanding, whining, needy behavior. Like with any relationship, you are going to have to be patient and I also recommend that you be the best you can be as a male sub, have skills that are desirable and clearly know what you want. Be a gentleman, respectful, attentive. Relationships are mutual. Paid sessions are a transaction.

This blog post broke my heart. I’m glad you’ve found happiness with someone that really cares for you now.

Also thanks for writing this blog. I’m married to and love a vanilla, but it’s nice to remember the kind of men I will always prefer.

Admiring the time and effort you put into your blog and in depth information you provide. Its great to come across a blog every once in a while that isnt the same old rehashed information. Fantastic read! Ive saved your site and Im adding your RSS feeds to my Google account.

Nothing wrong with pro-Dommes. Everything right with it. As a long time money slave, i can only be proud of the pro’s…they are the REAL Dommes.

im a pro domme, have been for ten years, there are so many haters and im surprised u Are not one too since u hve been ripped off, these woman really shouldnt be able to get away with it, plus it makes it that much harder for the genuine pro dommes as well.

Dommes are a cross section of humanity. Some horrible, some average, some good, some fantastic.

i’ve served pro’s in adult book stores and loved two of them deeply. i’ve served in 24/7 capacity on two occasions for two years each. Each lady was a financial Domme before money Domme’s were popular.

i’m proud to be a sub/slave, and am in the camp of the Domina’s of the world. Pro’s, amateurs, satan’s and saints.

Well I am a Pro Myself and I do agree with you in that there are a lot of “pro” Dommes who trick boys into thinking that they are not pros. I Myself have been in the business over 15 yrs. And in the lifestyle as long as I can legally say lol. And I realize there are tons of boys who want to serve Me as a personal sub. And sometimes I might even let them try out for My personal stable. But I try to keep those to a very small cross section of My clients. For the most part I try to inform My clients that if they want a real time Domme that they need to look elsewhere. And that My services are for training and education but not to be confused with the deep personal bond you have with your personal Domme. So just keep on looking for the right one and She will come along. But keep your wallet close to you in the mean time. Because there are a lot of money grubbing fakes who will tell you whatever just to get their little hands on your cash!

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